Government run healthcare will do to the rest of the country what TennCare has done to TN. Bleed it dry! This bill would force citizens to purchase something they don't want as well as open the door to mandated government run welfare enrollment. Never would I imagine our country would do that. The arrogance of this administration is very disturbing. All hail Fidel Obama!

Are you against the government taking over health care and making a mess of it like they did the mortgage market? If you haven't contacted your senator expressing your concern with adding another 900 Billion Dollars in debt and taking 500 Billion Dollars away from Medicare to fund it you are as much of the problem as the ones pushing it! We will spend hours on Facebook and not take 3-minutes to contact our Congressmen. E-mail them today at http://www.senate.gov/

I heard something about Kucinich and the health reform bill on NPR two mornings ago. He believes a single payer system is the only way to go, and I think he had an ammendment in the bill giving states the right to form their own single payer system if they wanted. There were those who would vote for it only if his ammendment were removed, so apparently it was. That is what I recall hearing on NPR anyway.
You can read his own words as to why he voted no at:

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/11927

I'd given up on the SPS and thought the public option was the next best thing, and an eventual step in that direction offering at least some relief until we can get there. He doesn't think so.
Thanks for the information, C.K.

Just leaving this here: Kucinich voted "no" on the House bill, as did Paul.

Source: http://www.politico.com/livepulse/1109/Democratic_no_votes_.html?showall

Celeste:

I like Henry Rollins. He's one of the most outspoken men I know of, profanity not withstanding. I adore his passion.

You're right about not changing my mind. I cannot see health care reform with the public option as nothing more than more government intrusion.

As I type... I'm seeing that the reform bill has passed the house, 220-215.

Take solace in that. I cannot.

Oliver: I'm a Sir. CK will suffice. :)

It's late, and my bed is beckoning me- so I'll keep this short.

I cannot share your optimism for our country. There's entirely too many red flags waving in the wind, and I'm afraid it doesn't bode well. Besides... the reprobates outnumber our Pauls and Kuciniches.

As for you and your family... I wish them no harm or damnation. I'll save my vitriol for those within the Beltway seeking to expand Empire.

Just let me live my life the way I see fit, and I'll afford you the same courtesy.

The Amerikan Empire is breathing its last. Now we just wait for the looters to starve.

My heart has been with Kucinich from the get-go. I agree with Ron Paul on some major issues as well.
Oliver, C.K. has told me that he is a "sir".
I too have testimonials about the reason I feel so passionately about health care reform that includes a public option, but I get the feeling mine and yours combined wouldn't budge Bigoldi's opinion.
Oliver, C.K., just curious, do either of you like Henry Rollins? You can look him up on youtube if you've never heard of him. I'm not talking about his music (other than one song called "Liar!"), but his show "The Henry Rollins Show". The first time I ever saw or heard of him was on his show on Independent Film Channel (IFC). I am quite fond of him myself, but I'll warn you that he uses profanity occasionally.
Sorry for the interruption....had to jump in...stepping back out now. Please continue.

Sir or Madam, if this country could find a few candidates who are a combination of Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich, we'd have a nearly perfect government.

I like Dr. Paul, and I adore Dennis Kucinich (you knew that, didn't you - or assumed it).

In spite of his flaws, I think President Obama wants the best for this country. I believe he wants to make us better. And I know that health care reform with a public option is vital to fixing the country.

If I told you the stories of people in my family, and my friends, you would more fully understand just how bad the problems are.

But you might still think we should all be damned to hell.

I don't think so. I think the country can and will survive. I believe, too, that the citizenry is the most informed of any in our history, so we know about the many awful things that are happening, and some of us understand it.

I believe that we are strong, and if we can stop the lies and the misleading statements being spewed by the right wing extremists, and stop the extreme right wing from taking over the Republican party (if it isn't too late already), we might still heal.

Maybe I am just wearing my rose-colored glasses too often. Or maybe Dennis has rubbed off on me.

Oliver:

I expected a solid response from you, and you delivered. Valid points were made, and some points I just don't agree with you. Such is the nature of the beast.

To be perfectly honest... I'm frustrated beyond belief. I'm frustrated that the country that I was born and raised in... the country that I've seen lots of... and the country that I love- has been taken over by a draconian government. I'm not intending that statement to be scathing of the democrats, but the republicans as well.

You see... I've come to the realization since 9/11 (so that covers both parties) that there isn't a two party system anymore. Its merely a two-faceted Big Government party. The democratic side of that party desires bigger government by raising taxes, instituting program after program, and favoring public sector over private sector. The republican side of that party is in love with the war aspect and growing Empire, militarizing our police, banking, pissing on civil liberties, and surpressing those who aren't straight WASP's. Both are complicit in pissing on the Constitution, creating laws counter to the constitution, and not bothering reading them. Both are complicit to special interest groups- both are bought and paid for.

I'm seriously not kidding when I say "a pox on both their houses."

The few politicians that one could glean who are truly principled, and could honestly lead this nation to a better place... they're marginalized and mocked. Their salient points aren't countered- just more Ad Hominem attacks are leveled against them.

Ron Paul is one. Dennis Kuchinich is another... Both are principled, and therefore marginalized.

My country has become so top-heavy with crushing debt that its fall is inevitable. It cannot be paid back. I honestly believe that our current and past government has no intention of reducing the deficit. It is because of their short-sightedness that America is in decline, and I fear that decline will be permanent.

I'm frustrated that government (both R and D) think they know how to live and run my life, better than I do. Some government drone far away has no right to dictate how I live my life. But that Big Government Party (either facet) seeks only to control more of my life, livelihood, money, freedoms; all in the name of "my safety" or just in their benevolence. They are incorrigible. They are irredeemable. Damn them all to hell.

With the exponential growth of federal government, with no let up in sight... It makes me long for anarchy. At least there, I have a fighting chance.

Oh... and the weakness comment- you can easily plug the conservative side in place of the liberals. Equally complicit and guilty, as far as I'm concerned.

it's not the role of the government to handle health care or private business ...


Look around they cant even handle running this country...

Thank you, Tennessee Blue. I tried to give myself time to cool off before responding because I was, to be honest, FURIOUS. And I have a great deal of respect for the author of that comment, so I wanted to wait until my temper had subsided. You did a much better job than I could have done.

BUT (isn't there always one?) now that I am cooled down somewhat, I will respond (you knew I would!).

"I view liberals in the same way- Weaker; because they are too dependent upon their gov't for all their needs. They'll quickly abandon responsibility, if only the gov't will take care of them from cradle to grave."

Sir or madam, you must know that such blanket statements take away from your credibility. We liberals do NOT depend on the government for all - or even any - of our needs.

We do not abandon responsibility, nor do we want the "gov't" to take care of us from cradle to grave.

I would expect this from someone like Doris, but was disappointed reading it from you.

We liberals (as a card-carrying liberal, I feel confident that I can speak for MOST liberals) want only what is fair and right.

We don't think it's fair and right for extreme right-wing conservatives to screech at everyone that health-care reform is as bad as terrorism.

We don't think it's right that big-wigs in giant corporations make millions of dollars a year on the backs of the working poor. If you're honest, you will admit that it's true.

The working class and the working poor are the backbone of this country. That has been proven over the past decade and a half. When jobs were shipped overseas (thanks, in part, to one of my heroes), I predicted that this was the early death knell for the economy.

I knew it would take a while, but I also knew you could not keep taking jobs away from the middle class and the working poor because they are the consumers who made this country rich.

Sure. Wealthy people do make jobs available for the middle class and working poor, but look what's happened over the past few years: Jobs that used to pay a living wage and help middle income people and the working poor buy such things as houses and cars have been shipped offshore, as have most of the profits the bigwigs have made and pocketed.

Eventually, this disparity began to be apparent. The richest one percent of the population makes more money than 95 percent of the rest of the population.

You might think that's fair. We do not. We think working people should be paid a fair wage - enough money so that they, too, can share in the American dream. As it is now, the 95 percent work themselves half to death to further enrich the 1 percent. Again, you might believe that's fair. We do not.

And before you start blaming me for being a "victim" let me add that I KNOW that life isn't always fair, but I also know that a proletariat that is forever kept down by the ruling class will one day revolt - will take what they have earned - but nothing more than that.

You can only keep this kind of inequity up for so long before it implodes upon itself. That's what's been happening for the past few months. It isn't Obama's fault and it isn't the liberals' fault. It's really just the way life has become in the US. The rich get richer off the hard work of the poor.

To make things worse, the rich also have done away with MOST of the unions - the only thing that kept the working class from being among the working poor.

Now everyone is poor - except that famous 1 percent.

No. We don't want anything handed to us. We want a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. That's all. Nothing more. Nothing LESS.

If you've read any of my history of posting, you'd know that I'm not thrilled with the Repubs either.

They're quick to jump into bed with lobbyists, seek the same governmental control over the people (Patriot Act), and were equally culpable on the Banking bailout. Even when opposition to that bill was running 100-1 against... they still voted for it.

It makes an absolute mockery of the term "Representative". For the Bankers and Lobbyists, perhaps. Not for anyone else.

They're all common whores. We all know it.

And I stand by my previous comment about weakness.

Celeste: You know those aluminum foil looking suits that firefighters at the airport put on? That's a nomex suit. Highly flame-resistant.

RE: C.K. Bigoldi's reference "I view liberals in the same way- Weaker; because they are too dependent upon their gov't for all their needs. They'll quickly abandon responsibility, if only the gov't will take care of them from cradle to grave. The gov't isn't the solution to life's problems. "

It would seem that the REPUBLICAN FAT CATS ON WALL STREET along with the BANKING INDUSTRY are the ones who have "quickly abandoned all responsibility" and gambled away everyone's future in the Derivative Casino they created and now have become the largest group on the public dole, far exceeding the liberals referenced herein. I guess it's o.k. to beat up on the poorest and weakest among us and to close a blind eye to the abuses of the wealthy. Oh...that's right, the far right elite have always been the bullies in school, in their first jobs, in their dealings with the "masses". Republican greed has been the driving force behind their their healthcare protests. The good Dr. Roe is doing his little part for the republicanists but he is shortchanging his constituency. But then that's what the Repugnant Party does as a matter of course. There's a vulgar term for it not allowed in this forum, but we all know what it is.

It was my pleasure, C.K. I hope you have a good weekend too.

What's a nomex suit?

*cough* http://tinyurl.com/ygtv6gh *cough*

Funny, many of the front page web polls on this website stay up for a couple of days or more. Yet the poll asking whether or not the current health bill should be passed was yanked quite quickly. Maybe the overwhelming majority of support, even from the visitors of this website, sure makes all those cute editorials slamming the bill(s) appear silly. Whine and cry folks, its going to pass. The votes are there.

Celeste starts off with: "I will respond to your points, but first I want to say that all the financial stuff is beside the point, with me, when it comes to healthcare."

That's a noble pursuit. However- the financial stuff is part and parcel to paying for that healthcare. It's a rather crucial part of it.

----------------------------------------------

Continuing: "Everyone on the face of this earth should have access to healthcare whether they are rich or poor, smart or stupid, lack responsibility, whatever. Each and every one of us IS "entitled" to healthcare.

I have no issue with everyone having access to healthcare.
----------------------------------------------

--1. Name one government agency that's more profitable that private- You're right. I don't know. I lack experience in dealing with the government, I do not even know what all the government agencies are in order to compare them.

Don't sweat it. I've asked that question to people much smarter than I, and they can't answer it. It doesn't negate the fact that gov't is inept at running "business" effectively, compared to a similar private industry.

--------------------------------------------

--"However, by it's very nature: FOR the people- I would expect government to have less profit when compared to a corporation's nature: FROM the people."

Government doesn't produce or manufacture anything (except fiat money). The business model of a corporation and the "business model" of gov't are two totally different creatures, so the concept of profit is alien to gov't. A deficit for a corporation would lead to bankruptcy, and they would shutter the doors. A deficit for gov't would be shrugged off, and the taxpayers hooked for the bill, i.e.- the post office or amtrak.

Long story short: the post office, if it were a private entity, would have been extinct, under normal rules LONG ago.

---------------------------------------------
--"The government seems to be catching on though, so I do believe the health insurance industry has great potential for profitability."

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume profitability.

If there were a profit- would we the taxpayers receive a check (and not just a redistribution of wealth) for our fair share of that portion of income (since our money funded it)... or would there be a reduction of the nation's deficit?

We haven't received a dividend check, and the deficit will triple by next year.

I can safely assume that "gov't profitability" is an oxymoron.

---------------------------------------------
--"Is it possible that the internet had more to do with its downturn?"

Quite possibly. Efficiency has its perks.

--"Who uses "snail mail" anymore? Regardless, does this mean we never should have formed a federal post office? Should we never have formed Medicare? Medicaid?"

Ya know... The post office has served it's purpose but now it's operating constantly in the red. Medicare and medicaid... They're in the same boat.

Like I said earlier- the "business model" for gov't for some reason is above the law of economics. I expect DC to begin floating soon, since they're not subject to laws- which I assume would include gravity.


--"Your other point about ramping up spending when you're already bankrupt, well, it worked for Donald Trump and corporations do it all the time."

Trump also ceded control of those failed investments. Bankruptcy allows your creditors to be repaid, and that sometimes means ceding control to do that. You'll never catch the gov't ceding any form of control. Again- they're somehow above the law of economics.


"I do think wise investments pay off eventually if they are managed well. They are finally working on trying to better manage medicare so that it is more efficient."

Gov't efficiency is an oxymoron.


"I don't advocate government dependency or huge government."

You're contradicting yourself, if you desire for a single-payer healthcare plan, with government as the source of that.

"Once the country is better educated , then I will certainly be more with you on holding everyone accountable. While so many are illiterate and ignorant, I don't think they should be abandoned nor allowed to be fed upon by corporate vultures. It is almost like taking candy from a baby- too easy, and I will argue, criminal. I support consumer protection agencies for this reason."

I have no issue with education of the people to make them more aware, and I especially have no issue with (private) consumer protection agencies.

Thanks for at least being bold enough to answer questions and hold a civil discussion. :) Have a good weekend, Ms. Peck.

C.K., What's a nomex suit?
I will respond to your points, but first I want to say that all the financial stuff is beside the point, with me, when it comes to healthcare. Everyone on the face of this earth should have access to healthcare whether they are rich or poor, smart or stupid, lack responsibility, whatever. Each and every one of us IS "entitled" to healthcare.
Now, A couple of your points that I failed to address, I will just to clear it between us. 1. Name one government agency that's more profitable that private- You're right. I don't know. I lack experience in dealing with the government, I do not even know what all the government agencies are in order to compare them. However, by it's very nature: FOR the people- I would expect government to have less profit when compared to a corporation's nature: FROM the people. The government seems to be catching on though, so I do believe the health insurance industry has great potential for profitability.
For what it's worth, the post office seemed to be booming when I was a child. My Grandfather hung out there sometimes with his friends, and everyone wanted to work there. Is it possible that the internet had more to do with its downturn? Who uses "snail mail" anymore? Regardless, does this mean we never should have formed a federal post office? Should we never have formed Medicare? Medicaid?
Your other point about ramping up spending when you're already bankrupt, well, it worked for Donald Trump and corporations do it all the time. I do think wise investments pay off eventually if they are managed well. They are finally working on trying to better manage medicare so that it is more efficient.
I don't advocate government dependency or huge government. You have valid points. Once the country is better educated (I do think Obama's efforts here will pay off a few years from now- when he is no longer in office and will not get credit for a boom in productivity and innovation), then I will certainly be more with you on holding everyone accountable. While so many are illiterate and ignorant, I don't think they should be abandoned nor allowed to be fed upon by corporate vultures. It is almost like taking candy from a baby- too easy, and I will argue, criminal. I support consumer protection agencies for this reason.
Everyone is probably sick of me by now I'm sure. So I'll continue to read but probably will shut up now and let everyone else do the talking.

Thank you, Dr. Roe. I didn't vote for you, but I appreciate your standing tall against the Red House and his cronies in Congress.

Brother Early: No one brought Jebus into this. Nice try.

See the good xtians are already making fools of themselves. Jebus is so proud.

Thank you, Jeffery- for bringing up one of my major points which has yet to be addressed.

I'll leave it sitting right there.

Celeste: I do believe that we're cut from different cloths.

Where you see the CEO's stealing from you and I, I see no contract nor fraud exercised against me. I was not coerced in any form or fashion to relinquish money against my will to those CEO's. Again- as I said to Oliver- if you have an issue with those salaries; go talk to the Board of Directors who sign his check. You and I are only distantly and indirectly involved with his salary.

Where you see Pre-approved credit cards getting people into trouble, simply because they're offered... I see people who buy into the "easy money" way of life, of instant gratification without looking at the future consequences. When they *voluntarily* filled it out, they entered into a contract with the credit company, and yes- they may have gotten screwed. But the key phrase is Voluntary. If they were not coerced into signing a contract that was weighed heavily against them, then you can't claim fraud or mal-intent.

I chose not to fill out those credit card offers. I kept myself out of debt. I didn't take out a mortgage with an adjustable ARM. Now I'm responsible for those who did run it up, and I'm on the hook to help them out? I'm afraid that THIS situation is much closer to the robbery of which you speak.
---------------------------------------------
Oh... and this comment: "It is outrage for my fellow man who suffers and struggles and CONTRIBUTES, but is treated by those *like you* as an undeserving, filthy, beggar."

Tsk tsk tsk. So if I don't subscribe to the highly-emotional egalitarian view of life... of Haves/Have nots- and therefore subscribe to the looting of those Haves to subsidize the have-nots... then the Have-nots aren't worth living? That's a leap. I'm much closer to have-nots than you realize.

I appreciate your passion, Celeste. I'm more appreciative of individual liberty, individual responsibility, and freedom from coercion and fraud.

There are those on this forum who view Christians as somehow "weaker", for not relying upon themselves and their rational mind. They stress self-reliance, instead of the "crutch" in the form of God.

I view liberals in the same way- Weaker; because they are too dependent upon their gov't for all their needs. They'll quickly abandon responsibility, if only the gov't will take care of them from cradle to grave.

The gov't isn't the solution to life's problems. They are (at best) merely a hindrance, and (at worst) power-hungry politicians who seek control over every facet of everyone's life.

::dons Nomex suit::

Celeste, you still have not named one government program that is profitable. Also, all of this government take-over stuff has been tried before by a country known as the Soviet Union and it did not work out too well for them. We as a country just can't keep going deeper and deeper into debt - sooner or later, the economy is going to crash around us much worst than it is even today. We simply cannot afford this + Trillion dollar Health Care Bill. If the Dems wanted true reform, they would include Tort Reform and allow interstate insurance competition.

Celeste. You are right to be angry and disgusted over the things you mentioned. You hit on the private sector and what they did to sucker in people. I agree with that but I contend that the Democrats have done the same thing to them. I see these people in trouble as victims of the powers that want to hold them down. This health care bill will only make it worse for them. More jobs will be lost. More families will lose homes. We agree on the problems. We just disagree on the fix. I know I sound heartless to you but I work about 60 hours a week to help people caught up in this mess. I know what they tell me and how they were taught to think. I'm finished on this now.

Bigoldi and Leather Band

You see "entitlement mentality" in those who were urged- yes they were urged like a child at a carnival with the carny yelling, "hey you! over here. win one of my pretty things."- to buy a home that they couldn't afford. Poor suckers. Do you know really how that worked? I've worked for corporate america before (I took a paycut to work elsewhere for the sake of my own conscience) and yes predatory lending exists and it is strong. They send pre-approved credit cards to mentally retarded citizens, then put a lien on the house, or garnish the wages of whomever has legal custody of that person- usually the parent(s) who has no idea the person even has a card. They urged people to buy houses, and convinced them that yes you can! own your own home. We're here for you every step of the way. Then Bam! out of nowhere their payments double, or even triple, and guess what, you lose your home. But the homeowner is the bad guy? That's how you guys see it? We see things so differently then that I'm not sure we can ever understand each other.

Back to my point, you see those who were suckered into home loans as having a sense of, "entitlement". Wanting a handout. But you sit there and say that one who makes $57,000 an hour (for producing these corrupt policies and dirty practices) is perfectly entitled to that sum. The one's who rather than hold out their hand, ball it into a fist around one's throat and strangle the life out of the general public or cram that hand down into the pockets and bank accounts of every american via controlling all the money you have access to? They're the ones who ARE "entitled".???
Looks like corporate america has you swindled. They see themselves as "entitled" to own the world's wealth and they've even convinced YOU that they're entitled to own the world's wealth. But, no that's not an entitlement mentality! Really?
I don't think anyone, no matter who they are or what they do, is "entitled" to make $57,000/hour while there are those right here in our own country starving and dying in the streets.
It is not jealousy, it is fury at being robbed. It is outrage for my fellow man who suffers and struggles and CONTRIBUTES, but is treated by those like you as an undeserving, filthy, beggar.
No, CEO's do not earn that money. They steal it from you and from me. But they are "entitled", no?
I'm disgusted. We will not be able to agree on this one.

Oliver said: "For instance, the CEO of Cigna insurance makes $57,000 an hour. That's more than most people make in a year. He makes that much in an hour.

Know anyone who deserves that kind of pay? Me neither!"

If there is an issue with his amount of pay- please contact the Board of Directors at Cigna. They're directly responsible for that figure, and THEY see him as "worth that amount".

As for me- I won't see $57,000 / hour in my lifetime, but I won't weep about it either. I'll worry about my own life, thanks.

Celeste said: "Those who oppose the public option out of concern for our country's economy, please consider that one of the causes of the Great Depression was the deletion of the middle class. There were those who had everything, and those who had nothing. No one really in between."

I assume that's my point, so I'll retort. This recession/depression is NOT caused by the deletion of the middle class. Try hyperleveraging of capitol, a sense of entitlement to a home when you can't afford it, the public sector siphoning off money from the private sector (where the economy actually occurs), fiat money being printed 24/7... I could go on.

If you were seriously in debt or bankrupt- there isn't a financial counselor in this land who would tell you to ramp up spending. The laws of economics works for everyone but for some reason- the gov't is exempt? How is that? Because they control the money printing presses? That's only exasperating the problem. Hyperinflation isn't something we want, but it's the course we're on if Unca Sam keeps spending money to feed entitlement programs.

Summary: How do the laws of economics go into hibernation when it comes to the gov't?

----------------------------------------------
Celeste continues: "I am not understanding how getting in on the health insurance business is going to bankrupt our economy. On the contrary, I would think it is a good investment. I see it as a win-win situation. The government makes money instead of United Healthcare (whom I think are low-life crooks, no better than the thug selling crack on the streetcorner) and Americans who need it get cheaper health insurance. Government makes money to pay off debt, Americans get some healthcare, Win-win"

Name *one* gov't program that is more efficient than the private sector (where they don't own the monopoly on the services). Simple answer: You can't.
Bureaucratic red tape, monstrous inefficiency, constantly running in a deficit (post office, amtrak, etc...) and a fate much like social security and medicare... insolvency.

There isn't a politician in DC who wants to touch Social Security. It's the third rail, and if you mess with it- consider your career over. SS will start to spend more money than it takes in by 2016. That system will fail soon after. And you want that same gov't to institute health care? It may work in the very short-term, but with this economy- it will be extremely shortlived.

Gov't set their own standard with their running of Medicare. To think that gov't will magically cure itself of it's inefficiencies and deficiencies is to have greater faith than I have or could muster.

One final point: Gov't isn't concerned with it's debt. It's just passed from generation to generation with hollow promises of taking care of it later... and it's not paid down. That house of cards will collapse soon, mark my words.

Celeste Peck. You loose. I manage. I just don't expect the richer class to take care of me. I know exactly where I am and I earned every penny. Rich people don't bother me at all. I'm not in the least bit jealous.

Lets do tort reform and open up insurance sales across state lines first and see how that works. Dr. Roe please vote NO.

Actually, the American dream came true - we are living it now.

At least SOME people are living it. Those whose incomes - due to nothing more than their willingness to step on and crush everyone on their way up - are 100 to 1,000 times more than those who actually WORK for a living, those who make it possible for the big wigs to keep on keeping on.

For instance, the CEO of Cigna insurance makes $57,000 an hour. That's more than most people make in a year. He makes that much in an hour.

Know anyone who deserves that kind of pay? Me neither!

The fact is the Republican party and the "tea party" people are cheering for the big pharmaceuticals and insurance companies and medical groups.

Go figure.

Leather Band, uh, hasn't anyone told you yet that the middle class has already collapsed? That's what deregulation does.

I would be willing to bet you are down in the lowest class but that you just haven't realized it yet. Same with Farmer. It'll be amusing to see the transformation when reality hits you.

There are lots of newcomers here, straight from what used to be the middle. Just waiting for them to realize where they're at.....

Oliver Douglas said "Spoken like a true Repuglican." Wrong , neither am I a DEM. Celeste Peck said "I am liking Pelosi better these days because she seems to have actually learned to be more effective. Love Al Franken. Love Alan Grayson. They acknowledge the fact that there are poor people that deserve respect. Respect but no free ride for a lifetime. Living of the working class peoples money. No !
Leather Band Said "Pelosi, Frank, Rangel, Burris, Franken, Boxer, Waters, Murtha, Conyers, Grayson, Reid, etc. I could go on and on. This bunch is a disgrace to the history." Thats very true I feel like puking just hearing the name, Lincoln would have helped the south fight the Civil War if he had these people around him.
C.K. BIGOLDI and FED UP are right on, people reform as the Democrats want will have more people die from lack of care than now. I would think Mr. Roe would have a lifetime of healthcare from MSHA and don't blame him the people you voted for in years past gave him free healthcare. Blame Jimmy Quillen.
And kiss your American dream goodbye. Amen CK I'M with you.

You just made my point. You warn about the deletion of the middle class. That's what this health care bill will do. The rich will be ok and the middle class will collapse trying to pay for this mess.

I am liking Pelosi better these days because she seems to have actually learned to be more effective. Love Al Franken. Love Alan Grayson. They acknowledge the fact that there are poor people that deserve respect.
Even the poor recognize laziness, worthlessness, and undeserving when they see it, and most of that, I believe with all my heart, does NOT lie in the poor class. I believe that the "I'm entitled" label would stick better on the CEO's and their children, those like the Paris Hilton's of the world.
Those who oppose the public option out of concern for our country's economy, please consider that one of the causes of the Great Depression was the deletion of the middle class. There were those who had everything, and those who had nothing. No one really in between. Who did that leave to buy anything? No one could afford to buy-no demand. So there was massive surplus and massive job losses, banks started to fail, etc... There is an ancient Hindu proverb that says something like...Help your brother get across the river and lo! you have gotten there also......

Also, there are many doctors who were not financially motivated when they chose their profession, the best ones actually. We're not talking about doctors suddently becoming destitute here. Just narrowing the divide ever so slightly.
The health insurance industry is very profitable. I am not understanding how getting in on the health insurance business is going to bankrupt our economy. On the contrary, I would think it is a good investment. I see it as a win-win situation. The government makes money instead of United Healthcare (whom I think are low-life crooks, no better than the thug selling crack on the streetcorner) and Americans who need it get cheaper health insurance. Government makes money to pay off debt, Americans get some healthcare, Win-win. The only concern I would have here is that the government doesn't turn into that same thug on the streetcorner that United Healthcare, Cigna, etc have become. They will need to be kept in check also.

"Get off you lazy a$$ and work for what you need don't stand around and wait for a handout."

Spoken like a true Repuglican.

See, here's the thing: there are millions of people working every day - some working two and three jobs - who cannot afford to eat and have insurance too.

Really. You should get out more. Stop watching the screechers on Faux and do some research. Many of the people who want this health care reform so desperately ARE hard-working people.

My spouse and I are blessed in that we both have health care insurance, but if either of us left our places of work, we could never get insurance again - because of pre-existing conditions.

Again, as someone said, ask Roe to provide us with the details of HIS health care coverage. He works for US, not the other way round. So do all the others who have lifetime health care coverage - the best in the US - without having to do a damned thing.

" I don't know where we will find a more bumbling bunch to represeent us, but we will." I know you were talking about Tennesse but if you look one step farther up the ladder you will find a more mumbling bunch. Pelosi, Frank, Rangel, Burris, Franken, Boxer, Waters, Murtha, Conyers, Grayson, Reid, etc. I could go on and on. This bunch is a disgrace to the history and memory of this country. People like these have given their followers the ideal that we owe them something. They are a joke. I know we are supposed to have programs to take care of our elderly and sick but why do the working people owe the welfare and "I'm entitled" mentality crowd a living? Rent assistance, fuel assistance, food stamps, health care, and a check to buy cigarettes and beer. You people better wake up because the ones supplying all of this have had it.

Fed Up: I'm with you.

Entitlement, on someone else's dime.

And the gov't continues to call in all who will listen, and offer yet another teat to suck off of. The milk has about dried up, folks. The resources are going away, and fast.

The deficit has doubled, and will triple soon.

Social Security will be insolvent within the decade, if not sooner.

The value of the dollar is heading down, and if the Chinese stop pegging the yuan to greenbacks... there will be a free fall.

We're throwing blood and money down the ratholes of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Yeah... keep on with the "I'm entitled" mentality. Keep it up with your $1 Trillion dollar healthcare plan.

And kiss your American dream goodbye.

Here's a few things for all you obamacare supporters to think about. If you were a Doctor or other medical provider would you remain in practice or continue to see patients if the government cut your income below a level that is profitable? I think the answer to that IS obvious. Doctors and their related support staffs are very smart people and are in their chosen field to make as much money as they can. When it's more profitible for them to work in another profession than it is to stay in medicne, or if they are just now entering medical school, do you think they will still stay in the profession or switch? All the medical benefits in the world are useless if they're no Doctors or hospitals to go to. A recent survey of PRACTICING physicians indicated 45% of them would leave medicne if obamacare became law. How on earth will that make medical care more accessable or better for anyone? Congress can pass all the laws regulating a person's business they want to, but they CAN NOT force someone to stay in business!

How do you think they are going to pay for this monstrosity? Soak the rich and businesses? The truly rich and most large businesses will simply move out of the country resulting in lower tax revenue to the government and even more job losses for the working class. Who will be left to foay the bill? The answer is you and I. Look for a value added tax (national sales tax) as not enough taxpayers in the lower classes of wage earners pay enough taxes to support it and the government. How's another 15-17% added to EVERYTHING you buy sound? Not very well in my oopinion. National health care sounds good, but all of us need to dig a little deeper into it's benifits and cost before we leap.

Roe sends out surveys asking;"Do you support government run health care"!a phony,leading question.I noticed that health care providers are his biggest donors.Hope he's a one timer,like Davis.Great comments,Eric & Celeste.Support the public option & forget the republicans.

Ya know, I don't think the folks of East Tenn can really do any worse during the next election cycle. We've got a mumbling senator, who has a shot at the Governor seat when hell freezes; a yee-haw with obviously minimal knowledge of anything regarding constitutional laws who simply follows Mumbles around; and a Dr. who is simply trying his best to fit-in with the Repub club and stain his years of service to folks by trying to find a reason to bash any healthcare bill he skims over or hears about.

Theres just no way we can find a more bumbling bunch to represent us. But we will, we will.

I dunno, is this douche any better than Davis? Just rambles along, spouting fragments of nonsense.

Michael C: I get those emails too, I think he's required to send out something every now and then. He threw that little poll in there just to make you feel like he gives a damn, yet anymore I don't think he really has much of a clue as to whats going on around him. He appears to be quite the lost sheep. He hears his lunch-buddies in D.C. talking, then tries to take notes so he can appear knowledgeable, but it all just comes out a mess.

Dr. Roe is way out-of-step with the American Medical Association. The AMA SUPPORTS the House health care bill. And what gives him the right along with the rest of the republicans in Congress to get deluxe health care on the public's dime and yet vote against the rest of us. Perhaps they should just refuse their health care if they think a public option is such a bad thing.

Celeste,

That may be one of the most intelligent posts that I have ever read.

Ms. Farmer says,
"Get off you lazy a$$ and work for what you need don't stand around and wait for a handout. You already have Medicare ot TN Care."
That is a very ignorant statement.
It saddens me every time I see evidence that this is the picture that the radical right paints of those more on the left. Lazy, worthless, bums just looking for a handout. Do you really believe that's how most liberals are? You buy that?
I see these type of hateful words, then it's funny the indignant rage that is shown when someone on the left spews it back at them. It gets so tiresome.
True, many doctors don't like the public option. Of course not. I would oppose giving myself a paycut too. But, if I made, say $600+K/year like many surgeons or specialists, I would be willing to make a little less so that those less fortunate would have access to healthcare. I really would.
Have you driven by any doctor's houses lately? I like doctors. I think they deserve to make a lot of money. More than average. But I don't think that the gap needs to be that wide. They live in castles while there are those who live in shacks. Those on the right will argue that those in shacks are there because they deserve it (they're lazy, bums and all).
The right seems to have this idea of social darwinism that is just so wrong in so many ways, yet they talk of God. They don't want to support "lazy bums" but they want to make abortion illegal so that there will be more of them to support. I just can't understand that. The whole abortion thing is just a self-defeating philosophy. It makes no sense whatsoever. If you don't want to offer a penny to those less fortunate, then you have no right to speak of God, and if you had any sense you would whole-heartedly endorse keeping abortions legal.
Sorry, I digress. I strongly support the public option. That's my two-cents.

We are presently paying COBRA for health care, I have already been hit with a $1100 bill, and have had to cancel three health care appointments because we can't afford the deductable. Working class people with insurance that can't afford to go to the doctor. What happens to us when we are unable to work?
If I am not mistaken, Mr Roe gets government paid health care for the rest of his life, just for being a politician. I was military and defended the country, not robbed it blind.

What happened to the $800 billion health care bill ? It's now at $1.2 trillion and continues to grow. I'm wondering if it is filled with pork like the defense budget. I would say the extra $400 billion was probably for pet projects. If it is, it is a shame for them to cheat the uninsured as they did our soldiers. What's a few $100 billion here or there for Democrats. If this bill isn't totally for health care/insurance reform, then they should be voted out in 2010. Enough with the wasteful spending.

Just keep your thinking going in this direction and don't be a cry baby when you lay in the floor dying and there are no hospitals to get care. The DEM's and Obama have you headed that way faster than a snowball rolling down hill.
Get off you lazy a$$ and work for what you need don't stand around and wait for a handout. You already have Medicare ot TN Care.

Has Roe even listened to the Nixion Tapes ????

HMO's were a CONGAME when they were apporved by a Republican Congress.

HMO's will make a larger profit by charging more for health insurance but provide less medical care !!!!!

THAT IS ON TAPE !!!!!!!!!

Get with the program congressman. How good is your medical coverage? Please post it here for all to read. Why only comment on the supposed bad stuff, twisted to meet the sad republican line. Medicare cuts, bla bla bla. I am young and pay 100 bucks a month for medical insurance I can't even use because the copays are too high. Congressman Roe - you have been emailing out asking opinions about medical coverage, including a government option, from the people that voted you into office. How about publishing those results?

A former physician so blinded by politics, he's willing to force the uninsurable John and Jane Doe into a future of medical despair.

I can't wait until the next Republican primaries!!!