Girls! Girls! Come on now...don't get a fungus in your undies over a few mis speld words or a question that didn't get answered. (Lorenz, - with a capitol L )

The good lord jesus knows that I have an obession with putting those cute little "..." all over the place...But that don't mean I have any less electrolights zipping around my neural network than Mr. DW. I'm not gonna Zanax myself over whether or not my grammar would pass a government background check.

The smell of testosterone in here ( a real turn on) is so strong sometimes throwing in a little raunch and some sarcasm lightens up this dark, musty room.

Anyway...having a pissing match over typos is worse behavior than any drama queen I've known or seen. (It's kind of gay sounding if you ask me) Honestly. Talk about lack of credibility...

So ladies, just flip your hair back, turn and walk in the opposite direction and give us something that is actually entertaining to read and ponder over...There's nothing good on TV.

I just realized no one said anything about my posts so I guess I'm just butting in here, but it needs to be said. (God told me so)

Maybe ... it's Doris, just pretending???

LOL!

The best part about the posts written by John Lorenz, is the name at the end.

That's all the information I need to scroll on by.

The one post in this thread that was actually on topic? What points I can make out are valid. You seem to jump around quite a bit with your arguments. I have at least figured out that you probably don't believe in global warming. I'm not quite sure why you refer to your thoughts as cohesive, as they seem to be the opposite of what that word means.

As far as the other 6 posts you have made? I see nothing of any worth to comment on.

I'm gathering that you are taking jabs at the use of my initials. I don't really seem the point in using my full name. I am not claiming to be someone I am not. It seems that you really want to know my full name, and judging from the ranting and general dissociative behavior you exude on this forum, that is very unnerving.

Now, as far as your spelling, you misspelled one word that I have noticed (a significant improvement on that end), but I must say that your use of punctuation can be atrocious at times.

D.W. Why the limited identity? The remarkrs you are referring to were directed to that poor lamentable victim, Oliver Douglas. It's a very personal matter. I'll do better to try and impress you with my arguments and thoughts rather than offend your sensibilities with my typos. In any event, you appear capable enough to have gotten the meaning of my ideas in reference to the topic at hand and yet you're concerned more about my typing skills than the points I raised. Is that your intent? To scour the postings and challenge someone on the basis of typographical errors while overlooking the points they're trying to make? Wouldn't it be more productive to point out the weakness in the argument, in addition to the typos, or is your concern limited to skills rather than thoughts? You haven't questioned or opposed one of my cohesive thoughts on the subject at hand, have you? I'm sure the "many" will respond. Most will have the courage of their convictions to use their names,D.W. For the record, how was my spelling in this post?

"What exactly, if you can put it all together in a cohesive manner, does that phrase mean?"

I think many of us are asking the same about your posts.

Well, your errors have a lot to do with taking you seriously. A well thought out intelligent post would have little or no grammatical or spelling errors. Trying to sift through your posts gives me the impression that you haven't taken the time to truly understand exactly what you are attempting to convey. That combined with the numerous personal attacks doesn't tend to elevate my thoughts about your opinions.

OLIVER THE VICTIM: You're right. Life can be a pain when reading others' writing. It could be worse.I could be unable or be incognitive enough to address topics at hand and rely soley on ad homiem remarks to disguise my inadequacies and lack of capabilities. Even more bizarre.
TAYLOR:" It's just getting weird anymore,lorenz"(not even showing enough respect to me to capitalize my proper name, thanks eric). What exactly, if you can put it all together in a cohesive manner, does that phrase mean?
D.W. Looking beyond my typo errors, if you can, what do you have to say, if anything about the topic, or is you criticism limited to typo errors?
Lana Kennedy: Thank you for your advise. As I asked D.W.How does that relate to the topic at hand, if it does.?

One of my favorite books! Short and sweet! I am one of those "sticklers" and life can be a pain when reading others' writing.

Could be worse. I could be obsessive over something ... even more bizarre.

Reading "Eats, Shoots & Leaves" by Lynne Truss will help with punctuation. Spell checker will help with the spelling.

Bless his heart! Sad. Just sad!

It's just getting weird anymore, lorenz.

Mr. Lorenz, you might want to look closer. There are certainly more than two typos. Heck, there are four in the first sentence of your second post.

OLIVER THE VICTIM: You really hit my obsession button today. As usual, you were unable to address the topics of my prior postings, cap and tax; and the 2000&2004 elections. What happened, did your reader take the day off, or are you totally unable to formulate an opinion that wasn't partisan rhetoric or personality based? You know losing the cognitive ability to address things before you is a serious situation that you might, if you can remember to do so, seek medical advice on. Just sayin'.

OLIVER THE VICTIM: How's my spelling and typing today? I notice 2 errors. How about you?

OLIVER THE VICTIM: Again you prove you can't even live up to your own standards, such as they are,and you're right, for once, I do have an obsession in exposing blowhards who say they offer evidence and then when challenged crawl back under the rock they originated from. Just remember, VICTIM who started this exchange and who was the one who thought nothing of attcking my character without ever once, not once arguing their opinion with fact, just partisan rhetoric designed to try to intimidate me with its volume. No matter what the amount of BS you fling, it's still BS. You haven't even been able to backup your challenges to me. How pathetic can one get? So now backed into a corner of near irrelevance you now say my responses require ME neding extensive psychological help. Playing the VICTIM is an excellent refuge for not being able to admit you were wrong to begin this exchange on your level of capability; that you aren't even person enough to apologize for some of the things you've said to me and now when you can't even fulfill YOUR standards you still point the finger at me. What a loser. Crawl back under the rock.

Anyone else notice this man has a serious obsession and probably needs extensive psychological help?

I'm just sayin' .....

Now that I've dealt with Mr. Victim and his outrageous attck on my sensebilities, let's talk bout climate chang. Is it man made? If it isn't then there really isn't alot we can do about it. If it is, do the proposed solutios have any real bearing on solving the problem? Very debatable. Even if our economy wasn't in a mess, would cap and tax legislation actually address the problem or cause a huge economic distortion in what's left of the economy? How would the cost be borne and still allow for economic growth? I don't think it would. Afterall, if alternatives were economically feasible, private investment would be more involved thanit is. Also, the cost of changeover, if a substitute can be found and made economicly viable might be years away. The statist approach, artificially raise the cost of current energy to decrease consumption via taxation and regulation, the economic impact be damned and hope that subsidized alternative investments pay off, not knowing if an alternative, other than the hated nuclear, even exists to meet our overall energy needs. Of course, these taxes and regulation will be inflationary futher harming the retired and working classes, but not the elites whose incomes rise faster than us prols.

OLIVER THE VICTIM: You just can't hellp yourself can you. Such compulsions need to examined. You SAY you always give your sources of information. OK What isyour source for George W. Bush, "the littke king" as you referred to him being appointed President? The FACTS are he was elected twice. In case 1, The GORE campaigned challenged the election law in Florida, after the fact, of course, that gave that stae's electoral vote, by EXISTING LAW, to Bush. The State SAupreme Court, made up of 4 Democrats and 3 Republicans and was the most overturned state suprenme court in the country, nullified the existing law. The Bush campaign went to the SCOTUS on a 14th Amendment petition. They won on that 7-2 and it was the only known time Stevens and Ginsburg ruled against a 14th Amendment petitioner(he wasn't a cop killer). The second vote, to continue the vote count went 5-4 no and Bush was declared winner based on Florida law. Now, MR. Facvts, what do you have that says otherwise, or are you just blowing smoke? As far as the 2004 election, what ACTUAL SUBSTANIATED COURT CASES do you have that would have changed the results.? I bet you don't have any. Some people think much too much of themselves, wouldn't you say Mr. Victim?

Who says that some of us backward hicks don't have a college education ? How about the ability to research, read, and comprehend a subject. True, some of us aren't like Gore. WE weren't born with a gold spoon in our mouth and not worry about the college or the tuition. It doesn't mean that we haven't worked hard to improve our way of living. The problem on here is so many assume something about someone because of where they live.

Climate change? What happen to Global Warming? All this BS means one thing.."World Government"

Ok...Everybody knows I'm no scientist...so lets just get that right out of the way. But, I do have an opinion. (key word 'opinion')

I've read pros and cons for global warming and there's alot of compelling stuff out there that suggests that what's going on right now is cyclical. The polar caps on Mars and other planets are melting too, so whats up with that? Plus core samples show that climate change happens in cycles as another example...

Of course we should take care of the planet and do better. Who wants an island of trash out in the middle of the ocean? But there needs to be some open debate from both sides about the contradictions to try and sort through all the BS, politcal and financial issues backing it. Especially when the government is wanting to turn it into some grand TAX scheme which will in turn screw us all.

If you can't be willing to accept the possibility that Global Warming isn't exactly what it's cracked up to be, then maybe you should double check all of your info and make sure you are informed about the pros and the cons with an open mind.

I may be weird, but when I see so much effort and energy devoted to something on a global scale, when there is so much evidence coming to light that contradicts it then I have to stop and think about it more.

There's inventions right now where a car engine can run on water. You'd think the world would go crazy about it but no, the big money isn't interested in it because of what it would do to the oil market. check this video out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9iWaCMbw60

There's still too much about it that doesn't make sense for me to buy into it.

Anyway. Don't hate me. I do have a tender soul under all the sarcasm.

That was decidedly weird! I was typing a comment when my hand hit the touchpad, and my comment disappeared. I thought it had accidentally posted, but maybe not.

I'm going to wait around a little while to see if my comment comes up on the web site, and if it doesn't, I might type it again.

HATE the touchpad!

George and Al (what a choice) we certainly haven't had any George Washington/ Thomas Jefferson/ Abraham Lincoln types in office for a while, I would settle for an honest candidate with character and morals these days. America doesn't need to be transformed, it just needs more honest people in office.

I actually go to a number of different sources for research, I wish more people would. There wouldn't be so many insults and maybe more debate.

Found that on Wiki too, didja?

Or was that on Fox? WELLLL. Yes!

All the debunking on this planet won't change some people's idea that the former president (Al Gore) said he invented the internet. He became a joke because Fox said he was a joke.

Best marketing scam I've ever seen. Most damnable, for sure. If you want to hold Mr. Gore to such exacting standards, why'dja let the little king off so easily? He sure as heck didn't have any credentials to be appointed president. But you didn't mind that?

Well, that surely is telling, idn't it?

Don't insult the quality of the information on the internet,
Al Gore invented the internet.

No. Master of Google. Just typed one of the sentences into the search engine, and up popped the Wiki reference, complete with most of his entire post.

Thought I'd just let everyone know what his source was. Furthermore, I'd put Al Gore's education up against anyone's here on this forum, and I'd say he would best them ALL.

He HAS had a lot of experience and education in environmentalism, in climatology, and in talking to scientists.

He's one of the smartest men in America, and in any other universe would be considered a Tennessee treasure. Only in this backward state would he become a laughingstock - by people who can't even pronounce most of his educational background.

It's the way of the state - laugh at and mock and debase anyone who has an education - who has tried to better themselves - and pat yourselves on the back because you think you are smarter than any educated person.

I am impressed. Aren't you?

Climate change is just like everything else commented on here. You can find enough information on the internet to prove your case for or against something. The truth is out there, just finding it can be hard. One truth is it's late , and I have an early start in the morning.

Just as I thought, Master of Wiki, and that's it. At least you are closer to an environmental degree than Gore. my turn to LOL.

That would be because I haven't pretended to be an environmentalist, a climatologist, a meteorologist or anything else here on this forum.

When I do, I will at least give the source of my information - as I always do.

OHHHH. I found it. Credentials are from Wikipedia! Once again, without any mention of the source of the "information."

Now it's MY turn to LOL!

Why don't you lead the way Mr. Douglas ?

Maybe some of the people who comment here HAVE written letters to the editor, but they've been - shall we say - turned away?

Maybe liberals are not welcome.

And your master's and doctorates are in ... what specialty was that again? Must be in some environmental science, climatology, or in meteorology, perhaps?

Isn't it strange that you have not offered up your credentials as an expert in the field. 'Fess up, people. What are YOUR credentials? We already know Mr. Gore's bona fides.

I'll be waiting ....

Great post True Conservative. I do love the same old usual comments from the libs. If you don't agree with them you're either dumb, watch too much Fox News, listen to too much talk radio, or just don't get the left-wing liberal agenda. It's so sad to see them try to beat you down with insults and name calling. I love these armchair commentators, LOLOLOLOL. Will China and India show up at Copenhagen ? Why is China buying up so much coal ? Wonder who has the market share of the rare metals/earths that will be needed for rechargable batteries ? If all you want to do is agitate ,insult, or degrade others, go back to the chat rooms where you will fit in. I would like to see some of these people post their opinions, or better yet, write a letter to the editor.

"There's an old saying, something about a little bit of knowledge being a very dangerous thing..."

I have to agree, we should all step back and look at the quality of information we have available.

Al Gore has a Bachelor of Arts degree in government, served in Vietnam as a journalist, spent a year in divinity school, attended law school (no degree) for two years, than decided to run for the house of representatives, when he found out his fathers former seat was to become available. He was on a number of different committees including some that studied the "greenhouse effect" while in congress.

Gore had a particular interest in reducing "waste, fraud, and abuse in the federal government and advocated trimming the size of the bureaucracy and the number of regulations."

Gore was also involved in a number of initiatives related to the environment. He launched the GLOBE program on Earth Day '94, an education and science activity that, according to Forbes magazine, "made extensive use of the Internet to increase student awareness of their environment".

Gore has been involved in a number of environmental activities since 2004 when he co-launched Generation Investment Management, a company for which he serves as Chair. The company was "a new London fund management firm that plans to create environment-friendly portfolios. Generation Investment will manage assets of institutional investors, such as pension funds, foundations and endowments, as well as those of 'high net worth individuals,' from offices in London and Washington, D.C." A few years later, Gore also founded The Alliance for Climate Protection, an organization which eventually founded the We Campaign. Gore also became a partner in the venture capital firm, Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, heading that firm's climate change solutions group.

A tiny car company backed by former Vice President Al Gore has just gotten a $529 million U.S. government loan to help build a hybrid sports car in Finland that will sell for about $89,000.

I did not find a reference to a degree in environmental science, but I see why some would be suspicious of the investment groups specializing in "green technology ", someone stands to make a lot of money. His house still uses ten times the amount of energy mine does a month.

No, let's just listen to Al Gore rather than investigate it ourselves. Oh wait! Al Gore has an agenda and just happens to own large stakes in companies that are benefiting from his rhetoric....and is he a scientist?

From what I've read, we don't have near enough data to prove global warming is anything other than cyclical patterns. However, we do need to conserve energy, recycle, plant trees, find alternative energies, and anything else to help our environment. We just don't have to scare everyone into thinking it must be done overnight. Keep in mind, our country only has 5-6% of the world population so we can only do so much for a planet in which few others are making the same sacrifices.

I believe that Proud Christian inadvertantly brought religion into the conversation, not Mr. Stevenson, just by his/her choice of screen name alone. Just an observation, not an attack.
There's an old saying, something about a little bit of knowledge being a very dangerous thing...
I will trust a legitimate scientist over someone who has read a few articles on the internet and then considers themselves an expert any day. Unless of course Mr. Layne or Mr. Jordan have credentials not mentioned here, in which case I'm all ears.
It is dangerous to assume that scientists are wrong and that you know more than they do without the real knowledge, education, and background to back it up. It is good to ask legitimate questions though, and if this is what science is now telling us, then I want to know more about their justification for the change of heart.
I have been hearing a lot about this lately. I'm just wondering where is this coming from? Who started it and when?
There are many industries who are at risk of huge losses (and we all know what a powerful motivator money can be) if climate restrictions are enforced. I'm starting to smell a rat on this whole, "global warming is not real" philosophy. Scientists, like economists, can be easily bought. I would just encourage everyone to keep that in mind before buying into that ideaology whole-heartedly.

And there you have it. Case closed. Just remember you have offended some wackos and they will come.

One other source you should note is the solar activity charts, there is longterm research into sunspot activity and established cycles of a an average of 10.6 years but varying between 9 and 14 years. If you notice on the Wilkepedia page on this subject the solar activity peaked around the year 2000, has been declining for roughly nine years and should trend up again in the next 2 to three years.

The effects of increased solar irradiance activity are expanding atmosphere temporarily thinning ozone and small elevations of temperature.

I tend to trust armchair scientists over politically motivated science. Rather than recycling the highly politicial junk science of Al Gore you might read some other theories on climate variations. Given the nature of a solar system comprised of orbiting bodies, the earths orbit should be in a state of eventual decay anyway.
Milankovitch Theory describes the collective effects of changes in the Earth's movements upon its climate, named after Serbian civil engineer and mathematician Milutin Milanković. Milanković mathematically theorised that variations in eccentricity, axial tilt, and precession of the Earth's orbit determined climatic patterns on Earth, resulting in 100,000-year ice age cycles of the Quaternary glaciation over the last few million years. The Earth's axis completes one full cycle of precession approximately every 26,000 years. At the same time, the elliptical orbit rotates, more slowly, leading to a 23,000-year cycle between the seasons and the orbit. In addition, the angle between Earth's rotational axis and the normal to the plane of its orbit moves from 22.1 degrees to 24.5 degrees and back again on a 41,000-year cycle. Currently, this angle is 23.44 degrees and is decreasing.

Given the number of variables and the very small window of recorded data we have available, the Global Warming Alarm seems premature at best.

Don't you just love those armchair scientist who don't have a clue about science. KTN seems to be full of them. LOLOL

Which is why the polar ice caps have been larger in recent years....

Thank you, Peter, for bringing religion into the debate. We can always count on you.

We have reliable weather records for the last 100 to 120 years. There is no data available for 2-300 years ago. Prove that this is not cyclical.

Somebody hurry and tell the polar bears the ice isn't really melting.

You will only hear this among the Christian crowd, since they think the earth is only here to be raped as they will be saved when their time on the earth is over. Who needs to be good environmental stewards when after the rapture you leave all the mess you made behind?

BTW, this is one of those issues where everyone has their own 'facts'. Simply because somebody in authority ignores your version of 'facts' does not make them wrong.

Thank You Daniel Jordan. At least I know there is one other person out there who isn't listening to the doom and gloom being spouted by the liberal media. Those are facts that you won't hear on ABC, NBC, CBS or their affliates.