When I read the headline of this article, I decided to make a bowl of popcorn before reading it and the follow-up posts.
Fantastic !!

The crazy thing is that most of the people who are so freaked out about this "GUNS IN PARKS" law is that they are around permit holders that are carrying their firearm every day and don't even realize it.

LOL, Comedy, Pure Comedy

I checked your source and it was well laid out. I did find some rebuttals though. See...isn't this much nicer. We are using real concrete evidence now instead of mudslinging.

Check out Moody and Marvell.

"While reading Ayres and Donohue’s 2003 article in the Stanford Law Review, we noticed that their analysis did not prove what they said it proved. They claimed that their model proved that shall-issue laws increased crime. Our conclusions are as follows.

Many articles have been published finding that shall-issue laws reduce crime. Only one article, by Ayres and Donohue who employ a model that combines a dummy variable with a post-law trend, claims to find that shall-issue laws increase crime. However, the only way that they can produce the result that shall-issue laws increase crime is to confine the span of analysis to five years. We show, using their own estimates, that if they had extended their analysis by one more year, they would have concluded that these laws reduce crime. Since most states with shall-issue laws have had these laws on the books for more than five years, and the law will presumably remain on the books for some time, the only relevant analysis extends beyond five years.

We extend their analysis by adding three more years of data, control for the effects of crack cocaine, control for dynamic effects, and correct the standard errors for clustering. We find that there is an initial increase in crime due to passage of the shall-issue law that is dwarfed over time by the decrease in crime associated with the post-law trend. These results are very similar to those of Ayres and Donohue, properly interpreted."

no sir...not unreasonable. i will look at your source.

I called no one a redneck - not this time.

Instead of arguing ad nauseum, here's what I'll do instead: I will refer you to Ayres and Donahue.

There are others. I know you will refute everything they concluded because it does not fit your preconceived opinion.

It is, however, far more balanced and carefully thought out than your source.

Have at it. I'm finished. One cannot reason with an unreasonable person - an unreasonable ARMED person.

see here is the thing...all you have done is made your emotional comments calling us rednecks or "selling our souls" to the NRA.

I really don't care. If you could make a logical argument then I would listen to you. I am not ignorant. I am not trying to be macho. I am not trying to start a riot or even get into somebody else's trouble. I simply want to protect myself.

I don't think of myself as better than you. I think you have your right to do as you please. If you don't wanna carry then don't.

So sir...keep making your illogical statements, condemn me, make fun of my "militant" opinions. It really doesn't matter. I just want to protect citizen's rights. So keep ranting and making the same arguments yall have made for years. The OK corral has never happened since we let these evil guns into law abiding citizens hands. However, there have been rampages where no firearms are allowed (VT, Columbine, etc). I don't want more people to die. And the facts say law abiding citizens legally carrying deters crime.

BTW...it incites violence?? Really? Why does crime go down when a state has concealed carry? U.S., John Lott and David Mustard said, "allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons deters violent crimes. . . . [W]hen state concealed handgun laws went into effect in a county, murders fell by 8.5 percent, and rapes and aggravated assaults fell by 5 and 7 percent."

Go ahead....I'm ready for more slogans and sayings telling me Im a cowboy. Could you at least use some statistics or facts this time??

Having sold one's soul to the NRA does not prove a thing, except the mind-set of the "member." Again, the majority of the populace of Tennessee don't carry concealed weapons or permits. The majority of the people of Kingsport didn't call or e-mail or mail the mayor's office. If I were him, I'd be afraid too, but never in a million years would I give in to gun-toting militants. Yes, militants. That's exactly what they are.

As a permit holder and gun owner myself, I have enough common sense to realize that the majority of people don't want the presence of a gun at a public place - because it incites violence.

You people might believe you are better, safer, smarter, better trained and calmer than the rest of the populace. I don't believe it for a minute. Anyone can tell from reading your comments that you are mostly bullies who are just itching to get into the OK Corral fight of the century.

Admit it. That's the real reason behind all this macho posturing. Yeah. I know there are women with permits (married to a gun owner with a permit) but for the most part, they ARE saner and more safe and don't want their kids exposed to such violence.

But the bottom line is: you won. Thank goodness I don't have to be in the Tri often, so I won't be exposed to the gun slingers in the parks.

No Mr. Douglas the majority doesn't rule. And as for the Bush thing...I didn't like Bush. That was called how elections work! The electoral college is what matters. The popular vote determines which states will vote which way. This is so just because Kalifornia has so many people in it, we in TN also get a representation. Kalifornia gets more electoral votes however they cannot count all of the popular votes. It's a system that works.

and you can do whatever you please. I wish you would. however, it is my right to defend myself. So...leave it alone.

GOOD JOB MR .PHILLIPS !!!!!!!! HATS OFF TO YOU !!!!!!!!. As for Mr.Osborne just one question how can your police be everywhere and protect everyone all the time (not possible). Its already been proved that some of our police force are just as much crooks as anyone other out there. and the fact that some people take the test with 22s is irrelevant most people that have permits that i know or i have come in contact with have been around guns all their life. and as for the test it clearly states the permits holder is completely liable for where that bullet goes should it come to that. The police would like nothing more then to see a unarmed public .at least some of them think this way. why don't they worry about the drunk drivers that are out on the roads every day rather than worry about a law abiding permit holder. and again when did the police become personal bodyguards ? WWW.NRA.COM

This is a relief... My 3 year old will be much safer when visiting the new / planned Kingsport Aquatic Center. Thanks.

The majority doesn't rule? Well, I guess you WOULD say that, since the majority of those who voted in 2000 did so for Al Gore, but a minority of Republicans shoved that other man down our throats anyway - thanks to the "non-activist" right wing Supreme Court.

But the system is set up so that, when votes are cast, the majority of voters get to decide who will represent us.

The majority of voters in this state don't own gun permits. They may own guns, and that's fine - just like mine - in their own homes to protect their own property and family.

When you wanna pack your piece concealed on your person and go out into the public with it, that does infringe on my rights to be safe in a public - taxpayer funded - place. You might very well think you are so much more safe and clear-thinking and trained than the rest of us, but I don't think so.

As for criminals bearing weapons (or baring them, if you prefer), I'd rather take my chances with them. At least I'd KNOW they were criminals. If you pulled your gun in my presence, I'd not be able to tell you from the criminal. You'd just be a wild-eyed gun toter with a vengeance and a desire to shoot someone.

I'll keep mine on my own property, and when I hike in the wooded areas of my own property, I'll take my gun in my shoulder holster underneath my clothing and if a bear or another critter accosts me, I'll use it. Otherwise, I'll leave it at home and take my chances.

At my "advanced" age, I've yet to need a weapon anywhere - even in the woods. So you keep yours out of my vicinity and I'll do the same for you and everyone else.

I don't trust you any more than I trust a criminal. End of story.

FEAR FEAR FEAR!!!

Yes...we are entirely paranoid! In the 1990s, Criminologists Kleck and Marc Gertz found guns were used for self-protection about 2.5 million times per year.

2,500,000 / 365 = about 6849 times a day.

So yes brother early....we are SO paranoid. We are so paranoid that we even wear seatbelts when we drive. And Lord forgive me but I am so paranoid that I even have a smoke detector in my house. I know I will probably never wreck or have a fire but I am just so paranoid that I have to have these things to make myself feel safe.


Here is a suggestion that crosses the aisle...gun violence is out of control. Some want to defend themselves...some want guns gone completely. So enforce the laws we already have. Don't let CRIMINALS get guns. Take the guns out of the hands of people who abuse society and everyone is happy.

Bro. Early, Me thinks that you think too highly of yourself. You are nothing more than the rest of us. An insignificant nothing.

Yes guns were designed to kill people. However...things that weren't designed to kill people are killing more people than guns! I was attacking your logic...not cars.

These arguments yall raise are based on emotion...not facts or logic.

Yall have repeatedly said "your rights stop where mine begin." And I agree...I have the right to defend myself and you do not have the right to deny me that right.

And the majority rule??? Really? One of the highlights of a republic is that the majority doesn't rule. What is right rules. What about when our colored brethren were being beaten in the streets or made to go to separate schools? I wonder what they thought about the "majority rule."

I am not right wing or left wing. I am an American. I do not believe in the Democratic or Republican party...I believe in the constitution. So I really don't care about all the spin EVERYONE puts on here. This isn't about politics...


Rant off.

FEAR FEAR FEAR! THAT'S ALL THE PSYCHO GUN NUTS ARE ABOUT. MEDICATION DOES WONDER FOR ALL YOU PARINOID NUTS.

HeHe indeed.

Point by point: I do indeed have a permit. Have had it for a long time. Also have a 9 MM, shoulder holster, and other gun-related accouterments. My permit was earned after I became an expert marksman in the NG, and then took a day-long class (along with some people who, without a doubt, should not have guns!), qualified as expert again (still have my AccuMan target, which proves my marksmanship), and paid a good deal of money for the class and the permit, so that I can carry concealed in several reciprocal states.

You do feel superior. The way you express yourself here proves it.

How do I or anyone else know you don't carry where it is illegal? Why are YOU more trustworthy and more believable than the rest of us?

It is most assuredly
paranoia. Nothing else will make you fear for your life in everyday situations.

This country is safer than most. Except for the gun-crazed right wing wackos, it's not a bad place to live. You will not agree with me, but I'd be willing to bet my retirement fund that the majority of people who commit crimes of violence and who shoot people ARE right-wingers who also consider themselves "born agains."

Yeah. Your last statement: "I cant wait till its only gun lover left in the park. We can form a club and talk about who has the biggest gun. hehe" sums it up quite nicely.

I have work to do.

G'day.

Mr. Douglas,

First, I would like to explain that we do understand the concept of majority rule as well as the individual rights of the minority which can not be infringed by the will of the majority.

While I agree that the majority of citizens, in this state, do not hold carry permits, I do believe the najority do have firearms.

The fact that only a minority of citizens hold carry permits, in no way infringes on the rights of other citizens, let alone overshadow their rights.

Just because a person has a carry permit does not make them paranoid or feel superior, even if that is the reason you have a carry permit, it does not mean it is the reason others do.

It is diffcult to understand why any reasonable person should feel threatened by law abiding citizens exercising their right to carry their firearms in a city park when those same people provide no danger to others when they are in federal parks, state parks, and most other public places

Paranoia aside, in the real world is where honest people are attacked by criminals daily and a minority of them are saved by the simple fact that they took the safety measure of being armed.

Most people do not have antomobile insurance because they feel that they will cause an accident, but just to be on the safe side, and the same is the case with holders of firearm permits

There is an old saying that I would rather carry forever and never need a firearm than not carry and only need it once.

It is my considered opinion that the majority of those that enjoy our city parks will still have a good time there and the fact that some honest citizens will carry a concealed firearm will not detract from that enjoyment.

I would like to thank our Board of Mayor and Aldermen for not buying into the myth that allowing permit holders to carry in city parks would somehow cause those normally honest citizens to go crazy and start shooting up the parks.

For 1 I dont think you have a permit.
For 2 I dont feel superior I feel my family and my self are protected.
For 3 I do not carry where it is illegal. But its my right to carry where its not.
For 4 Its not paranoia. There are people being killed in church, at the mall, at the grocery store, at the park, walking in their own neighborhood,at state parks, At national parks, at rest stops on the highway, How about restaurants Fast food and sit down. Do I need to go on?

This country is not as safe as some people think it is. So stick your head in the sand, It will be O.K.

I cant wait till its only gun lover left in the park. We can form a club and talk about who has the biggest gun. hehe

My guess is that you don't understand the concept of majority rule. First of all, if the majority of citizens wanted permits, the majority would have them, and have guns as well.

If a tiny minority of citizens do have handgun carry permits, as I do, they (I) do not have the right to overshadow every other citizen of the state and carry their (my) weapons inside places where they are not welcome.

Before, we who are not paranoid rarely thought of armed maniacs in public places, like parks. Now we will know for sure that you and others like you are there, packing your heat, feeling superior with your god-given right to keep your bare arms.

Your paranoia makes you think you are in danger in even the most benign situation. The rest of us live in the real world, where we realize the odds of getting attacked or shot at or any other of the millions of awful things that COULD happen, are so small, they usually don't.

When you and your fellow gun lovers are the only ones in the parks and everywhere else in public, maybe you will be happy. Then, the herd can begin to be thinned.

Take it up with the great State of Tenn. They are the ones allowing us to have concealed carry permits. By the Way , it's not easy to get one. Parks are one of the most dangerous places. Even the greenbelt is crawling with perv's. Get a grip.

My rights do not outweigh any one else's rights.

But their rights do not out weight mine. If they dont want to come to the park because a law abiding citizen is carrying a handgun. They can stay home.

Say hello to Eb Mr. Douglas

So you deliberately missed the point?

Of course you did.

MR OLIVER

You have the same right to go to the park as I do.

It seems clear that, if you type fast enough AND listen to music at the same time, you can make some funny mistakes in your comments.

Should have read: "6,214,888 PEOPLE in Tennessee."

Should have read: "Why SHOULD
your rights (and mine, since I, too, have a permit) outweigh the rights of the other six million people in the state?"

MR. FRANK:

There are approximately 6,214,888 in Tennessee.

There are approximately 222,000 permits holders in Tennessee.

Why are your rights (and mine, since I, too, have a permit) outweigh the rights of the other six million people in the state?

Can you explain that to me?

Never mind. I don't want to hear any more of your right wing rants, thank you very much.

Fed up

I hope you enjoy being a recluse. While I enjoy my freedoms.

BTW watch out for the home invasions.

Oliver

I will have to send mine back to the Mfg. they must be defective. Mine has never killed anyone.

No I will be at home out of the way of my attacker so I guess you will have to shoot him!

Brother Early,

I am glad we got to see who you really are, only a small vindictive person would attempt to hurt tourism in Kingsport simply because they did not get their way and have the city overturn an act of the state.

As to your statement, "You people have made it acceptable to go armed in public.", I will have to remind you that the people have done so in almost every state in this entire nation, not just this state, county, or city, and have done so without endangering the public.

Maybe you did not know that federal parks and about half the nations state parks already allow permit holders to carry firearms.

I have heard all the anti-gun firearm arguments before, but their predictions did not come true. In fact almost all the states now are shall issue states and the violent crime rate actually went down, not up, since honest citizens were allowed to carry firearms, and that happened without shoot-outs in the streets over minor differences by honest citizens just because they had a firearm.

You have the right to your opinion the same as everyone else, but to actually threaten the city because they refused to challange a state law, and you are afraid honest citizens may be legally carrying a concealed firearm in a city park, when those same citizens can legally carry in federal parks, state parks, and almost all other public places, doesn't make very good sense ro me.

When a person can no longer laugh at himself, it is time for others to laugh at him.
- Thomas Szasz

The fact is that cars were not designed specifically to kill people.

BIG difference. There's no comparison - of knives or cars or hammers or anything else that was designed to do something other than kill.

What were guns designed to do - specifically?

Kill people.

Period.

I will never bring a knife to a gun fight.
But you will be unarmed and at the mercy of your attacker.

ed frank

aren't you a little big to be getting on a swing? ha ha
people like you is what makes our nation so humorous, we are all entitled to our opinion so try to keep the childish remarks to yourself and don't bring a knife to a gun fight!

fed up citizen

You will take your little ones to the park where thugs have knives and guns. But let a law abiding citizen have one for protection and you wont go. I dont care if you ever go back to a park that way I wont have to wait in line at the swings.

Thank you Kingsport! Yall will probably get flamed for this by the left but it is the right choice. All the irrational fears of the anti-gun crowd have not come true in 13 years of HCP in TN in all the other places...why should there be a magical fence around a park?

[sarcasm on]

On the other hand...I want everyone to address an issue with me. We are a car crazed nation. As brother early said...your rights end where mine begin. CARS KILL PEOPLE. They are dangerous. According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration there are about 43,000 people killed in fatal car accidents each year in the United States. Roughly, 40 percent of the fatal crashes are alcohol-related. In addition to fatal accidents, about 2.9 million people are injured each year.

According to the National Safety council in 2006 there were 680 accidental gun deaths (which include suicide.) so friends...as we can clearly see CARS ARE MORE DANGEROUS THAN GUNS!!! And we all know how evil guns are.

We need to ban cars them immediately. You crazy car driving citizens are endangering my life every time you take the road. All you are doing is making officers job's harder by having more people driving. Besides...we have taxi drivers to drive...why do you need to drive yourself?

Quit trying to be like the 60's and drive everywhere. You crazy loons will never get it.

[sarcasm off]

Well said Brother Early, I for one will no longer be taking my little ones to the park. They might as well be playing in the center of a busy street.

Guess what C.K.. I don't buy my gas in Kingsport first of all. Secondly, this has gotten out of control. You people have made it acceptable to go armed in public. The right to own weapons should never extend to endangering the public. Your rights end where other’s begin. You all protect your homes and property all you want. I don't have a problem with that. But when a society glorifies guns in public parks and make vigilantism acceptable we are all in danger. This state and city have now made the job of law enforcement even more difficult. You on the right will never see this. The standards for getting a carry permit are not very strict. Most of us DO NOT fee safe knowing there are those who can barely pass a drivers test now carrying guns in parks, restaurants, and bars.

You think my pulling of support for the tourism industry in Kingsport is hollow. You have no idea how much damage can be done by a few with a large enough network. How many millions will this city lose without all the tournaments ever summer? I bet all these thousands of parents will be less than pleased knowing the City of Kingsport is now a lock and load in city parks town.

I received my training with a .357 magnum but I carry a 9mm. More difficult to conceal the .357.

Broearly- you'll be supporting the gas stations to drive to your marginally "safer" parks elsewhere.

I am glad, however, that you didn't go all wild-west, predicting blood running in the streets and bullets flying everywhere. That way- one year from now- we won't have something to point to as being a completely unsubstantiated prediction; and we'd be able to back it up with the complete lack of death and mayhem in the city parks.

Guess what City of Kingsport. You just lost all my support. I will not be promoting your parks, your restaurants, Aquatic Center, NOTHING in the future. This is by far the dumbest most insane thing this state and now this city has ever done. I hope the rest of the nations looks at this move and says "What a bunch of morons" and all the tourism dollars dry up. In fact I wonder how AAUA would feel knowing there are armed rednecks walking around the city parks now? Think I'll write a few letters and let them know.

Thank you Kingsport BMA. Contrary to what some doom sayers feel, you have made our parks more safe, not less. If I were a criminal looking for someone to rob or rape I would now choose a Bristol or Johnson City park before Kingsport. That way I can be armed but be assured they are not. Notice the quote, "we should leave it to the professionals to protect our parks" in the article. Can't say that I've ever seen a police office while hiking the trail around Bays Mountain. Thanks again for letting me retain the capability to protect my family in the many fine parks in Kingsport.

Well said, Bruce Wayne.

“I’m a firm believer of people being able to carry guns and use them in self-defense when absolutely necessary. But we should leave it to the professionals to protect our parks.” Does Mr Osborne think they went through all the trouble to get the permit to protect the parks? They got it to protect themselves and that's why they carry it, so either you do think they should be able to carry or you don't. Why should they be retested or recertified, according to some police officers that I know, the KPD only drug tests officers when they are hired and they never get rechecked. I guess Mr Osborne is like the state and just assumes that they are good for 30 years since they got tested once.

Wonder if we can bring guns to BMA meetings, then.