I do not care anything about your sexual orientation but if I am going to the park and that is happening, you can bet that I would be offended. I don't care if it is "Sally and Bobby", "Sally and Sarah", or Bobby and Billy", the point is KEEP YOUR PANTS ON IN PUBLIC! As far as where else you are suppose to go, try a hotel/motel, your home, their home, anywhere but where I might see you and children might see you. What you do sexually is not the issue, it is where you are doing it that is the issue.

I knew this was going to happen. I am getting more attention than the purpose of these postings in the first place: 40 men charged in sex sting.
Why? Simply because I stated in my first posting that I was a writer. I didn't know I was going to be subjected to the Sanhedrin. It just goes to show the generation of vipers that are always ready to try to bring someone--anyone--down to hell. This is the main reason minorities have as much trouble as they do today.
Perhaps I did sound a little pompous when beginning my postings by announcing that, "as a writer..." But this is how I arrange situations, and then compare and contrast, to bring out the best possible solution. I meant no harm.
In America (so far) anyone can do what he or she wills for their life. When I took many courses of English in college, I was encouraged and decided I wanted to be a writer. I am American and I have this right to do what I will with my life. At a later age I decided to go back to college and hone my skills further.
I have decided that it is past time to end these fights online. I have other things to do with my time. Sorry, but you fellas and gals will have to find another fresh soul to gnaw on. Have fun, I'm outta here....

Seconding Mr. Brown, in that letters to the editor are not valid for proclaiming yourself as an "International writer" Mr. Tate. Continuously posting the same "excuses" for these gentlemen, like having "private clubs, more bars" etc is nonsense. These are grown adults, and it's not my responsibility to make sure they are satisfied with the local homosexual scene. I seriously disagree with your reasoning in this situation.

Hey world, out there in cyberspace, isn't this all delicious?

Seriously now, we all are having a real sit down and talk about this park sex thing-a-ma-jig. But this is good, honestly. If we all were on a talk show doing this, it would all look like a bunch of humanity being very unprofessional. Viewers would be laughing, judging our actions, looks, and the host (referee?) would be scrambling to get a word in. But this is good, honestly.
We all are being the tried and true Americans we are born to be by showing our diversity, and even sometimes having to agree to disagree. But in a forum of homosexuality, it is hard for some individuals to agree to just walk away from an argument. In these postings however, people can read and compare more easily without all the melodramatics.
With that said, I will continue responding....Now, I have read more postings, and here goes:
Mr. Simmons, with your "Trent Revival" statement, I laughed and laughed. That was a good play on words! You were also honest in the fact that you are gay. By trying to understand why you appear to be coming down so hard on these men that were caught, threw me a curve there for a while.
OK. Is it that you are a proud gay person and desire to be respected like the rest of the community? If so, I guess in a way it makes some sense when others like you are being "filthy" and found squirming around in a park like a pig with other men. In a way, perhaps, you feel that this lowers the character of gay society who are struggling to achieve respectability from their cultures?
Ok. This does seem to make some sense.I agree with you on that one.However, I see something more here as the reasons the men were "doing it" in the park. There are more things that has to taken into consideration. IF...society here would allow gays to have men's private clubs, more bars, and respectable meeting places, one would naturally believe that the men would be more, let's say, respectable. However in the straight world too, women and men do make love in parks. I do not believe that they all desire to be seen; some may live with a relative and cannot go home to have sex, some perhaps could not afford a motel room. In the end, it is just a "quicky" thing. Sure, it may be wrong, but human nature oft times makes people weak.
I also applaud Dale St. John for being more honest too in his latest posting. He had some very deep questions that I also believe need to be addressed.
First off, I go to church regularly. This church is a Free-Will Baptist Church--ouch! I am open-minded and wish all peoples to have their rights.I have seen and heard many times the pastor make fun of gays, and a visiting pastor make slurry comments about gays that brought laughs, and looks and snickers from the CHILDREN in the church--double ouch!
In 1973 the Psychological Association termed being gay a lifestyle and not a mental illness. I am sure that this threw a deep curve in the religious world. Now, did they all have to accept homosexuality and believe that God..."made them that way?" Hell no. They continue to hold fast to the Sodom and Gomorrah ideal that is suppose to cover all gay people--past, present, and future. Nice.
So what is the gay world suppose to do when they know that they were born that way? They all have to bow to a handful of Bible verses. Even non-religious individuals use the Bible to condemn gay people. Does God like sport? Could it be that he thought that making gays and "colored" people would ease his boredom by watching us all clash with one another? God forbid--no. He makes us all in his image and he loves us all. We are the ones who judge his beauty and destroy it. We are still doing it. We will always do it. I have often thought of the days of Jesus when he was walking the earth and giving his sermons to the crowds. I have often wondered what he would have said if I would have spoken up very loudly and asked him to comment on gays. Jesus never spoke about gays in general. I am sure a lot of gay people take this as an insult. So now where do we go with the questions of origin Dale St. John had about gays?
The Romans celebrated their bisexual status, and other cultures are more lenient towards homosexuality. A lot of the fuss depends on culture. America celebrates the best looking, the strongest, and the richest. Their pride and vanity does not have much room for the children of a lesser god. There are many different religions as they are denominations for Christians in this country.
Consider: many moons ago it would have been death to interracial dating and marriages. It was against the law to marry a colored person. Blacks were treated like dirt. Read your history. Now it is very commonplace to see interracial couples and their children in the public for all to see. Will it be commonplace in the future for gays and their mates and their children? Still it all depends on culture.
But still, what about origin? If I were born with a set of male and female sex organs, I would like to think I would celebrate the fact that I was a child of God and choose the life I felt deep in my soul to find. If I got distracted by my culture and their beliefs, would I just go to a carnival and be hired as a freak? For what reason--for all the "perfect" people to see and laugh and feel good about themselves?
There are many unanswered questions in the world and the Bible. It takes faith to accept God and to accept the things we do not understand. Without faith, it is impossible to please Him anyway.
And as for Mr. Simmons' slurs about me being an internationally known writer, etc. Why do you enjoy attacking me? I am what I am. I have had my brains published in magazines internationally, and I have also had my ass published in Playgirl and many other mags in the past also. Get a life....

Mr. Tate, writing letters to the editor and being published in the Penthouse Forum does not make you a writer.

Well instead of crontinuing the "Tent Revival" we have going here, these people were wrong. Im gay and I don't understand all this "where could they have went" bull. You are silly Mr. Trent, to say the least. Stop with the excuses. Bringing more religion into the matter is simply a way to try and justify your opinion. Its a black and white affair, there's no grey area. These men were looking for SEX, not a long term committment. Unless you have facts of the law stemming from religion, lets keep the fantasy and reality seperate. To Mr. Tate, I'm sorry I simply cannot understand how you are an internationally-known journalist.

Mr. Trent, There are as many lesbians in this area as there are gay men. Yet I don't read about "woman caves". Why is that ? You don't see lesbians conducting themselves in such a manner in parks and restrooms...or if they do I certainly have never heard of it, nor anyone I know. Now I am not trying to be a smart alec. I really want to know. I used to know one of the men who was caught in the sting. I used to work with him many years ago. I really do know several gay men and many lesbians... some of them I like and respect, and some of them I loathe because of behavior that is outrageous. I also have family members who are gay, just like many people do, but few will admit to it. But I do not shun them or treat them any differently.I was not always of this mind set. I will be man enough to admit that I used to be meaner than hell to them... mainly saying things that were hurtful...out of ignorance(but I will stress I never physically hurt them)but the mental pain was more than enough. I wanted nothing to do at all with them. But I found out by accident that friend of mine was a lesbian and I had a choice to make. How could I suddenly hate someone that I loved so much? Someone who I had laughed with, someone who I had held and consoled when her father passed away? We were never romantically involved, just friends....one of the best friends I had/have.Time and circumstance may have separated us, but she is still my friend. I can't just flip a switch and change how I feel about someone.And I will admit that it is something I will never understand. Why is it you can't understand how I still don't approve of their homosexuality, but yet I can still be civil and a friend? It is something that I can not understand. It is time we had open and honest discussion on this issue so here goes.. I would like someone out there to explain something to me. Preferably a Christian or Muslim or any one of any faith who opposes gays vehemently. What about folks who are born with BOTH male AND female genitalia? It happens. What should their sexual preference be? Are they supposed to live their lives alone, with no one to spend their lives with? To love? Think about it. Embarrassing topic isn't it? But if the Christian and gay communities are ever going to resolve anything, questions like this must be answered. But if you are serious and really believe your views are right, state your answer.Lets have this discussion. This forum is as good a place as any to have it. God don't make no junk does HE? He created them too didn't he? Search your soul and give me an answer. If you can.

Thanks again to Mr.Buck Trent for taking the floor to display the truth. I am a writer and have had about 30 articles published in my hometown paper, plus in international magazines, including Penthouse. But I will willfully relent to Mr.Trent's honest statements. I was onced going into a gay bar with friends in Johnson City, Tenn. As we were going in, I heard a driver passing by yell, "You are going to hell." People also posted religious pamplets on our windshields. I also wondered if they did that act at the straight bars too. I doubt it. If "Christians" are to carry their crosses in this life, then what will they do when, on the judgement day, they are asked by the Lord WHY they judged the gay people? WHY did they choose to treat them like dirt? Will the righteous ones say, "Lord, you know my heart. You also know that these homosexuals doesn't deserve nothing but your destruction. You know you didn't die for these sinfull creatures!" Your turn....

I do not feel that it was appropriate to post these mens address' however, they didn't see anything wrong with showing everything they have that should be kept private to anyone that walked upon them. Also, I feel no pity for entrapment on these men. They were in the public and that doesn't need to be there. People try to take their children to places like parks and apparently nothing is safe anymore. I am ashamed to introduce my daughter to the world she must grow up in. I think it is awesome to entrap these people, I guess none of you would mind if they were after your child or spouse if entrapment were brought upon them. More power to the officers that are doing there job. I have no problem with homosexual people as long as they keep in their privacy. It is not appropriate to flaunt it in public. I am married and don't go around sleeping with my husband in broad daylight in a public park for the world to see. They make hotels to rent by the hour for these situations...If these men feel the need to do this it needs to be in private where the world doesn't have to watch.

Dear Mr. St. John,
I read the article, thanks. It was even more outrageous the second time.
Seeing as how you don't condone homosexual activities, I'm not entirely convinced you know and converse with many gay people, but IF you did survey your gay acquaintances on the issue as you inferred, I'm happy to report to you that as a gay man, with several gay friends, I agree! Most of us don't condone sex in public places, thank you for confirming that. It's true - we don't, in fact, condone "anything goes anywhere you can get it" behavior. Look, as the father of two sons, I want to protect their innocence as long as I can... I don't want them to see men having sex with men, or anyone, until they are mature enough to understand what they are seeing. (Again, the likelihood of a child wandering alone into a remote "mancave" seems rather farfetched, but let's drop that.) Why do these men meet in dark, secretive places? Where else? How many gay bars are in Johnson City? How many gay men's groups? Is there a clean and well lit gay and lesbian center somewhere I'm not aware of? Honestly, even if these existed, I doubt it would make much of a difference as most of these men - like so many others (paging Larry Craig) - likely identify themselves as straight because they do not feel safe leading open lives in your community. They have been shamed and made to feel like sinners and delinquents all their lives... and when forced into the shadows, many of them simply proceed to have sex there. By the way, while I do know of some people who enjoy having sex outdoors, I know very few of them. Do you honestly think that a town of a few thousand is home to 40 gay outdoor sex enthusiasts? They have no other options. If they could walk into a gay bar or community center to meet other men like them, knowing they wouldn't be harrased, pummeled, or killed when they left... the "mancave" would be overgrown and forgotten.

It seems there is a double standard going on here to begin with. Why not have women officers fondling themselves in the parks and see if we can bust some straight men? There is a couple from Virginia that have sex right in there car at the park and nothing is ever done to them. If an officer walked upon a man and a woman having sex they just look the other way.
Most of these men were in remote areas off in the park and not in public view, but for a police officer to expose himself or fondle himself and encourage someone to have sex with them is entrapment.
It seems most of you people seem to think that everyone is guilty before they have their day in court. What is up with you people?
I have never said public sex was right or wrong, but to target one group is certainly wrong.
One year I was at the park and a police officer gave me and 2 friends a ticket for being at the park after dark and it was daylight and we were doing nothing but in our cars talking. He assumed we were gay and he took pleasure in trying to give us a problem.
All of our tickets were thrown out of court because we were innocent and the cop lied. I tried to get an investigation gonig because he lied. Later on the cop is fired by the police department for inapproiate conduct. To me, when the newspaper published the names and home address's, pictures and made it front page news I feel it was wrong.
Now a man is dead because he was assumed guilty of someting before he had a chance to proove his innocence. No one seems very concerned about that.
I have been in a rest room in the city here and one of these undercover men exposed himself to me there and kept rubbing himself through his pants. I got in my car and left and later saw the man in court and figured out he had been undercover that day.
With all the pedophiles, crack and meth in this town it would look like the police would have better things to do with their time.
There is a double standard at work here as it is o.k. to let straight people have public sex and to entrap straight curious, bisexual, or gay men.
Many of these people claim to be such great Christias and take pleasure in doing anything to harress homosexuals. Jesus left this earth saying that the greatest comandment was love, not judging what groups sins were the worst.
I don't know how some of you people sleep at night. It is truly a shame that you are so narrow minded and judgemental.

Mr. Trent please read the article.Part of the outcry in these posts has been the listing of addresses, but by listing the addresses it proves that these men were not forced into the underbrush as you would have us believe. They all had addresses which means they have homes. They could have went to their homes and "done the deed". That is the entire point. They were in a public park, not the privacy of their homes. So your argument holds no merit. What hurts the gay community and does enormous damage is this 'Any thing goes any where you want it" attitude, displayed by men who commit such acts in public. In the post by Todd Malpass, he uses an example of firemen harassing gays. There is a big difference in firemen harassing someone and the police department conducting a sting operation. Firemen do not have the authority to arrest or conduct sting operations, or if they can, it is certainly news to me. Furthermore, these men were treated no differently than the men who were busted in a prostitution sting in Kingsport several months ago. Their names and pictures were in the paper also. You can debate the tact of printing such information all you like, but your discrimination notions have no merit.I know several folks who are gay, and none of them condone the activities these men were allegedly engaged in. While I may not approve of homosexual activity, what someone does in the privacy of their own home for their sexual gratification is none of my business... as long as children are not involved. But what they do in public should be a concern for any decent minded person. Especially where children play. Too bad some folks can't seem to discern the difference.

Entrapping men and printing their names on this site is sick. Congratulations on the suicides. You have blood on your hands. To show how such matters are handled in civilization, read this: In Bristol, UK, four firefighters have been disciplined for interrupting a similar scene: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/03/nfiremen103.xml

"The firemen shone their torches from their engine into bushes on the Downs - an area of parkland in Bristol said to be popular with people engaging in late-night outdoor sex known as 'dogging' - interrupting the four as they were involved in a gay sex act. One of the group later contacted the AIDS charity, the Terrence Higgins Trust, who advised him to make a formal complaint. That led to the firefighters being suspended while a three month investigation was carried out."

Let me start by saying how outraged and disgusted I am by the reporting of the men who were arrested for engaging in public sexual activity. I am not making excuses for public acts of a sexual nature, but to place their home addresses in the newspaper as if they were some kind of child molester was reprehensible. These men were consenting adults who made the bad choice of having sex in a secluded public place. This is the most distasteful and destructive thing that your rag of a newspaper has ever done. As a result, it caused one person to kill himself and as far as I'm concerned, your newspaper is guilty of causing this death and you each have blood on your hands. This so-called sting by the police department was just another way to harass the gay community in this city. If they are so concerned by public acts of a sexual nature, why don't they also focus on the straight community in this town. Why don't they focus on the Mouse's Ear or the other adult entertainment clubs in this area?

Ask yourselves this, "How many heterosexual couples have not engaged in some type of public sexual activity at some point in their lives?" Have you ever heard of parking and sparking? The mile high club? Get real! Almost every person from the baby boomer generation parked their car somewhere at some time growing up and fooled around. I'm not saying that I approve of this because I don't, but I hardly feel that this was deserving of a major sting and especially publishing their addresses in the newspaper. Was this major news? Did you ever think of the families of these men who will now suffer because of this? It seems that the newspapers in Johnson City, Kingsport, and Bristol always have to publish every ridiculous detail of everything that happens in these towns. Every time somebody burps, it becomes news. This never happens in major newspapers in larger cities. Why would a newspaper need to publish information about property transfers, speeding tickets and all kinds of other personal information that is none of anyone's business? I find this extremely tacky and shows an irresponsibility and lack of concern for the people who live in these communities.

As a result, I will no longer purchase your newspaper and will not be guilty of supporting a publication that is only concerned about selling copies and increasing their circulation and not about the people of this community.

A concerned citizen,

Theres a place for everything. Sexual activity at a park is not one of the

As much as I played around the bush with my two postings here; trying to take an in-depth approach to the 40-men-sex-sting situation, Mr. Buck Trent has said it better here than anyone I know. God Bless YOU Mr. Trent for telling it like it IS.

The core issue here is not public indecency... c'mon guys. The issue is homosexuality. The only reason gay men are forced into the underbrush like animals is because they are viewed that way by so many people in our society. These guys don't fantasize about stumbling around in a dark and secluded forest any more than Larry Craig craves sex in bathrooms. It's their only option. As for some impressionalbe child wondering into a deserted bathroom or remote underbrush late at night... please.
Let's start treating one another like human beings and we'll act like human beings.
I love the south and was born and raised a Baptist... but ultimately when I could no longer deny my sexuality - when i CHOOSE to stop pretending to be a heterosexual - I was forced to leave due to intolerance. Shaming these men further by listing there names and locations is as disgusting to me as homosexuality is to some of you.
God bless-
BT

WOW, You "mountain people" are a bunch of perverts!!!This sounds worse than anything I have ever heard about, even in San Francisco.
Don't they have any motels up there?

Ok, it appears as if I brought out the fire ants by my article yesterday. I need to clear up some things. I was giving the suttle impression that gay men do not have the same rights as straight people do in this tri-cities area. I am not taking up for anyone that breaks the law. I do not believe that anyone should be having sex in the public in any way, shape, or form. I didn't say that. What I was trying to say was that often times police and the public in this area come down hard on gays, and I believe they enjoy catching them do anything. This is the impression I got when I read about the article about the "man cave." It seems like it was way off the main trail (where the public walks). As for the bathrooms, I have never been in a men's bathroom where I almost saw...or did see...men about to...or having sex. If they are going to meet with one another, they should go somewhere else and do their thing.
As for someone who mentioned the fact that would I like to see a gay men's sex club (or something to that effect), well, why not? I would loose no sleep over it. I bet that if there was one in this town, and I would go outside the next morning, the sky would still be there and would not have fallen. Nevertheless, many people would not only loose sleep, but pickett and write articles and complain. This was the case a few years ago when it was believed that a gay bar was to move just on the outskirts of town.
I want to see everyone have their rights whether they be gay or straight or whatever. There is a lot of terrible things going on in our world today, and I believe more effort should go to these things. I structured my paper exactly the way it should of been. It is just that some people cannot see between the lines for their pride or vanity.

Mr. Johnson, have you ever heard of the word "intent",... as in criminal intent? For your information, soliciting sex is a crime. Indecent exposure is a crime. People of good character do not flash their genitals in public. A Restroom is a place to urinate or defecate;it is not a brothel. What part of that do you not understand? I would think it is pretty clear. Maybe you should read the article again, with an open mind, and then you will see that these 40 men were not arrested for urinating. I think it is very clear what was taking place. Good work Johnson City!!!

Seconded Mr. Beckner. I'm quite surprised at the irrational defenses some of the people here have managed to come up with. It's almost laughable. how do you validate these actions? Straight, gay, bisexual, etc, sex in public is illegal.

Mr. Tate,

I highly doubt that people patronizing the State Line Bar and Grill would be acting in any way "professional". I don't see how that in any way relates to what is going on at our area parks. Your comment on the two men in the bathroom that were about to engage in sexual behavior irritates me because if a child (or ANYONE, for that matter) walked in on them and they were well into what they were doing, how are they supposed to "straighten up" fast enough for the child not to see what was going on. A public place (or anyplace else) is NOT appropriate for any type of sexual behavior where children or others have even a minor chance of seeing something that could haunt them for the rest of their lives. Why are you defending these men? Their behavior is uncalled for. That's that!

It is fairly clear to me that the powers that be were on the preverbial "witch hunt". Let's us all remember that the Constution of the United States guarantees that all persons charged with any offense is INNOCENT until proven guilty. The media's acknowledgement of arrests is NOT a conviction and does not mean than ANY of these 40 people are guilty of the offense for which they were charged. Also, an act of indecent exposure can just be someone get caught taking a "whiz" in a secluded and wooded area out in the woods with no one nearby and no ill intent on the person that just happened to be in the WRONG place at the wrong time. That is NOT an offense worth butchering, or slandering otherwise good hearted people of good character over. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!

The gaping hole, sir, is men having sex with men in a public park and restroom. For a writer, you sure didn't write that post with any structure, or an actual point for that matter. Instead of "beating around the bush" per say, how about just telling us all what you would like to see happen. A gay mens sex club? That's about all I got after that long-winded post.

As a writer, I try to take all counts into consideration. With the Johnson City sex sting where 40 men were arrested recently in parks, some things seem to have gaping holes in it. First and foremost, public parks where families get together are not the place for any type of sexual activity. However the "man cave" where men meet other men seems to have been off the main path, according to the story. Off the main trail makes me think that this kind of sexual activity was to be in secret somewhat.
In a public bathroom, what are individuals suppose to do (when they are about to be engaged in sexual behavior) if they hear the door to the restroom suddenly open? One would think that they would "straighten up" in case of a child or policeman that would enter.
In any event, this sounds a little like the bust that came to a shop in Bristol about 2 years ago. The shop sold sexual merchandise and for a customer that pays $10. they have access to a backroom to view porno movies. There was a police sting there. Why there? Would a family with a child or children pay $10. to enter a room where they know sexual activity may go on?
This whole senario makes me think of MSNBC and Dateline's To Catch a Predator. All that is needed is Chris Hansen, the show's host, to jump in and take over with all his interrogating talents. However, in these situations, no children were at the man cave or in the back room of a sex shop.
If activity between men with men are to be something that is going to go on, where are they to meet with one another? That is where society comes in. In this area, it appears to be a "no-no" thing for men to be with other men in a sexual context. However, with the "Girls Gone Wild" videos and men's magazines displaying women with women to the joy of "straight" men's fancy, here is another gaping, hypocritical hole.
I have been driving on State Street in Bristol on Friday and Saturday nights. The Stateline bar and grill seems to host some wild patrons outside on the sidewalks a lot of times. I have seen women and men appearing to be drunk, staggering around, yelling, vomiting, and acting very, let's say, unprofessional. If this had of been a gay bar, people and the police alike would complain about families and children seeing this spectacle in the public streets.
So, as a writer, by taking all the elements together to make a "hole" it appears obvious that there are gaping holes in our society.

A teacher, a Pastor, and also the owner of the local "Appalachian Ghostwalks" business, Mr. Stacy McGee. A "man cave"???? Wow. There are several websites that actually list the places these people meet, the times, etc. It's actually seriously disgusting. The website also lists Riverfront Park in Kingsport, even AFTER all the attention and work that has been done to prevent this behaviour at the park. It almost seems that the "risk" factor is the attraction, why else would these people continue to perform these acts in previously raided bathrooms/public areas?